CHUD wrote:10.11.02
By Smilin' Jack Ruby

A small roundtable of journalists gathered yesterday at the Four Seasons in Beverly Hills to talk to writer/director/producer Michael Moore about his new film Bowling for Columbine (read the CHUD review). This is what he had to say:

Question: You make a lot of great points about the media-created culture of fear in this country, but how do you keep your own film from becoming a piece of fear media?

Michael: We asked ourselves that through the entire editing process because we didn't want to become part of the problem. There are things we need to be afraid of. Fear is a good thing. Fear is part of our self-preservation, mechanism, right? So, I'm not saying that fear is a bad thing, it's just that I'm saying we've been so bombarded with everything – that we're supposed to be afraid of everything – that we lost our fear compass. We don't know what the real threats are. We can't distinguish anymore between the real threats and the unreal threats. Child abduction – that's not a threat. That is not a threat. That's a big lie. Child abductions are down this year over last year. They were down last year from the year before. It's actually a problem that's been getting better in the sense that it's happening less and less often. You wouldn't know that living in Southern California this past summer, would you?

Question: That's what's going to win Gray Davis the election – the "Amber" alert.

Michael: The Amber alert. Yeah. Look, it's a problem if your child is abducted. That's a horrible problem. You don't wish that on anybody. But in the larger scheme of things in terms of what is "news?" What do we cover? The shootings right now – the sniper in suburban Maryland. What, he's shot 8 people? There's almost 40 people a day shot and killed in this country. 40. But we can't put a satellite truck on it can we because it's all over the 3,000 mile landscape. This guy's made it convenient for cable news. You can park one satellite truck in the Ralph's parking lot somewhere in Montgomery County.

Question: When you attack a show like Cops, what's the difference, in your opinion, between Cops and an artistic statement – that has been used, by some, to portray minorities in a bad light – like Boyz N' The Hood and shows that kind of urban violence?

Michael: Except Boyz N' The Hood shows a loving father who is struggling hard to make ends meet and raise his son in a very compassionate and intelligent sort of way. That film is hugely different of that so-called genre and from shows like Cops. Cops says, there's a lot of scary black and Hispanic people out there and they may hurt you. We're out here to defend you against them.

Question: Why did you infuse the film with so many points about race relations when talking about a culture of fear?

Michael: What's the problem with this room right now? (S.J.R. Note: Every reporter at the roundtable and even the publicist sitting behind Moore was a young white guy) I believe I'm in an area, if I'm correct, where our pigmentation represents maybe 33-35% of the population? Am I correct? We're in the minority.

Question: A minority. There's no majority in California.

Michael: Yeah, that's true, but of those of color – if you put the black and Hispanic population together here in Los Angeles, right? They're not in this room right now. Do you see a problem with that? I'm not saying there's a problem with you personally being here – hey, I'm glad you're here (laughs), but I don't want to live in "this" world. I don't want to live in this kind of society. I refuse. I reject it in fact. I want to see some other people in this room. And why are we all guys? What's that all about?

Question: This is actually rather rare (S.J.R. Note: I had to say something as the L.A. film press corps is, admittedly, a lot of white males, but we have lots of women and minorities in our group, too, and it was rather odd that it would be an all-white, all-male group at this particular junket – I can't think when the last time I've been at a junket table like that – though I must admit, I don't usually run gender/race polls before yakking with slebs).

Michael: Is it rare?

Question: Yes, usually we've got a couple of women per room...

Michael: A couple.

Question: Generally. How do you feel about the people who will see Bowling for Columbine and suggest that you are exploiting the Columbine survivors as much as anyone else in the media?

Michael: That's a very good question (S.J.R. Note: Thanks "Call"). It's so refreshing, guys. It's been a rough day. I've just spent three hours with the TV people, longer actually, of just mostly pretty stupid questions and the same damn questions and nobody...these questions that you've asked have not been asked of me, yet. It's just refreshing. If you'd been in my shoes all through this, you'd know what I was talking about. We thought a lot about that because I didn't plan to do that. I was going to Detroit the next day – we were in Denver and I was interviewing those kids. I was at Richard's house there and it was around midnight. Just kind of on the spur of the moment I asked him, "We're going to Detroit tomorrow. K-Mart headquarters is twenty miles outside of that town. Do you want to come with us?" "Yeah." So, I called up Mark and woke him up and said, "Do you want to come?" "Yeah." And ten hours later, we're on a plane to Detroit. A lot of the stuff may look like it's thought out, but because I lack a college education – and this is either a good thing or a bad thing, I'm not sure which it is – I didn't get my mind organized. I didn't learn how to write an outline or a thesis. Organize. "...and then we will take the kids from Columbine and go there..." It's all very loosey-goosey, spur-of-the-moment, Chaos Theory at work. I didn't even think about it at the time, because I'm more about trying to prick people's consciences. I believe that, "Michael Moore" with his camera there is not really going to get rid of those bullets. I expected to get the boot. But maybe, maybe if they saw the kid in the wheelchair and the other kid whose body is scarred up from this, maybe somewhere...because I believe everybody has a conscience. No matter how corporate or "whatever" they are, I believe that deep down they know the difference between right and wrong. And you can't see it because they made us keep our cameras away from the two guys – the bullet buyers that came downstairs – but one guy, the bigger guy has got tears in his eyes. He tells me later that he has a son this age and it really affected him deeply to hear that their blue light special was inside these kids' bodies. I'm always hoping that whoever I'm going to see like that will not take the role of the "good German." They will not just say, "Hey, we did not shoot these kids. We just put the bullets on the shelf." "We didn't kill those Jews. We were just driving the train." You always hope that our fellow human beings will feel their collective responsibility in whatever the part of their action is that leads to something like this. I think they thought about it that night and when we came back the next day, I think they'd already pretty much made up their minds and us coming there with the press just pushed it over the top. I see that scene now as a very empowering scene. I want young people to see this. I want teenagers to see this. I want to see that these two teenagers brought down this corporation. They would not have done it if it was just me. It was because they were there and it's a very, very powerful scene to me now when I look at it and I hope it encourages other people to say, "Jesus, they could do this, what the fuck could I do?"

Question: You've said, about this movie, you were shocked about Heston, you were shocked about the corporations, is it this shock that works for the film as I didn't know what was going to happen, shot to shot...

Michael: And isn't that more interesting for you as the viewer? You're in the audience and you're like, "I can't believe he's letting him back in!" (S.J.R. Note: Referring to the Heston sequence). You're feeling that, because I was feeling that. Because I don't plan my films out, because it isn't staged, it isn't rehearsed, I didn't come back after Heston said, "Come back the next day." My "people" didn't talk to his "people" and arrange things. It's literally as you saw it. The next time there was contact was when I pushed the buzzer the next morning and you see what happens. You're like, "Oh my God, what's going to happen?" You're feeling that because I'm feeling it. It's a much...viscerally, I think a better movie-going experience than your typical – especially a documentary – where they lay it all out and you guys can see the road map. You know what's going to happen in the next five minutes. I like being fooled. I like being lost in a film. I don't know what's going to happen next. That's a thrilling thing when you go to see a movie. And I'm a filmmaker. I'm first and foremost making a movie. I'm not making a political statement or giving a sermon here. Certainly, this film is heavy with politics and strong with my point-of-view, but if I just wanted to make a political statement, I'd run for office. If I wanted to give a sermon, I'd be a preacher. I'm a filmmaker and I'm first and foremost trying to make a film that you're going to love seeing. That you can sit there in the dark with a group of people and eat popcorn and have a great time. That is my first mission.

Question: What do you think about the coincidence that this movie is coming out the same week Bush is pushing for public support of a war in Iraq?

Michael: This kind of stuff always freaks me out. I had this stuff on Enron in my book that I wrote six months before Enron broke and then my book came out with all this Enron stuff already in it. I mean, we had Crackers, the Corporate Crime-Fighting Chicken back in 1993 long before you ever heard the term corporate crime or corporate crooks. This has actually been my curse. It's kind of cool if you're ahead of the curve, but if you're way the fuck down the road, you know what I'm saying? And it's going to be eight more years before they start talking about corporate crime? That doesn't do me or the issue any good. I'm being somewhat facetious when I say that because I know that every little bit helps and if you were 15 in 1993 and saw that and you're 24 now and you're working at a paper, you could be juiced to do your own Crackers-thing. Or you go and ask questions of these crooks. Maybe you got inspired by that. So, there's Iraq stuff in the film and the film comes out this week that they're going to vote to go to war with Iraq, I don't know what to say about that other than I'm very happy that it's out right now and I'm hoping that a lot of people go to see it and leave the theater thinking and talking about these issues because again, Saddam Hussein is not a threat. That's a false threat. That is a false threat. That's a distraction away from what we should really be afraid of. And if it's terrorism, if that's the topic, I tell you – as someone who lives in New York City because those of us who live there are waiting for the other shoe to drop, we know the next thing hasn't happened yet and it will happen – it ain't Saddam Hussein who is going to be doing it. Saddam Hussein has not threatened me or my family tonight in New York City. So, this is just a huge distraction and it's just pathetic that Bush thinks he can get away with it.

Question: What's your legal obligation in terms of getting releases?

Michael: I try to get as many as I can to reduce the lawsuits.

Question: Heston?

Michael: No, he's a public figure. Public figures you don't need releases from.

Question: So, when you're in his house, how are you shooting for visual continuity?

Michael: We have two cameras there. I have a little DV camera and then I've got the HD camera because we're trying to cover things. We have to cut. The interview goes on a half-hour, but I was very careful in that interview because it's going to be pretty controversial what he says, so I'm very careful to make sure I'm not doing any funny cuts. I want there to be the continuity of what he's saying there when he makes the comment about the "mixed ethnicities" and all that. There's no prompting from me. I was not bringing up race at all. He brings this up on his own.

Question: When you tried to hand him the picture, was that something you had to go back and do?

Michael: No, we had a second camera.

Question: So, you're not re-staging anything?

Michael: I'm really bad at that. I tried that a couple of times when I made Roger & Me like when a plane goes over and you don't get the sound or whatever and you say, "Let's do it again." If you ask the person to do it again, then it looks like acting. If I were to do it again, I would look like acting. I think you can pretty much see that I'm very much in the moment, I'm very much trying to control my emotions because I'm very upset and I want him to look. I want there to be a human face on this issue. I don't want her to be just a statistic to him. Now, if you asked me what I cut out, that's a different question because I don't show you everything I did there. I also held up something else.

Question: What?

Michael: The reason we were in L.A. was because we went out to Chino to the gun manufacturer out there that made the Saturday Night Special that killed the little girl in Flint. So, I wanted to trace the gun back to where it was originally made. It was one of the ideas for the film that didn't end up in the film, but that's why we were out here shooting. And I had got that gun, that model and everything and I wanted to present the gun to him as a present. I don't want to threaten him with a gun because I don't want him to think he's got a gun pointed at him, so I just held it up in a paper bag and said, "Mr. Heston, I also want to give you the same kind of gun that killed this little girl." In the editing room, I just thought, that's harsh. It's rough enough just watching what I'm already doing. I mean, he's an old man and he's recovering from hip-replacement surgery. He's walking very hard. I'm a human being. I disagree with him politically, but I feel for him as a person. I'm there, I think you'll agree, I treated him with respect. I wasn't there to make fun of him. It wasn't a Daily Show stunt to – wink, wink, "Look how funny and smart I am!"

Question: Was he alone?

Michael: Yeah, no handlers. No nothing.

Question: Were you aware that he had a restraining order against him about coming to the set of Planet of the Apes?

Michael: No. From whom?

Question: The studio. He allegedly approached the set, acted irrationally...

Michael: During the remake? No, I didn't know that. I want to put the whole Heston interview on the DVD because I asked him about this remake and I don't know if at that time I'd seen a cut of it – I'm trying to remember now. But you know the scene...

Question: Yeah, it's anti-gun.

Michael: Yeah, how did they get him to do this? So, I asked him about this and I said, "Have you seen the film?" And he goes, "No" and he was really kind of upset. And I said, "Well, that seems weird. I mean, you're Charlton Heston and you're in the film." And he said, "No, they haven't shown it to me." What do you make of that?

Question: I don't know the whole story, but I think he had some problems with it.

Michael: Has that been in the media.

Question: Yes, I think so.

Michael: Wow. I went back to watch the film because I was trying to think if he ever heard the line. He's in the close-shot or the medium-shot and he never heard the line from the Tim Roth character, so he didn't understand the whole concept of the scene, maybe. I don't know. This brings up the Alzheimer's issue. First of all, he doesn't have Alzheimer's. His statement in August was that he was told by doctors that he had Alzheimer-like symptoms. He's remaining as head of the NRA. He's out campaigning for Republicans right now. He's in pre-production on his next film right now. He's looks kind of feeble in my film because, again, he's just recovering from hip-replacement surgery. But, I shot that in June of 2001, so he seemed pretty sharp for his age and everything. Did it seem that way to you?

Question: Do you feel that his putting out that press release in August was in any way a pre-emptive strike on the controversy certain to get stirred up when this interview hits theaters?

Michael: The studio has asked me not to give my opinion on that issue. I will say, I hope he doesn't have Alzheimer's because it's a horrible thing and I wouldn't wish that on anybody. So, the timing was...strange.

Question: You mentioned so many horrors of the 20th century in the movie, I was wondering why you left out, say, the genocide in Rwanda?

Michael: There's so many things I left out.

Question: Was it because it didn't really involve guns?

Michael: Yeah, you can kill people with machetes.

Question: Which leads to the question, do you see guns as a means for violence or do you see guns as creating more violence?

Michael: I'm more concerned about the violence than the methodology. Ultimately, this film is not about guns, it's not about school shootings, I'm using a much larger canvas to paint a picture here. I'm trying to get...I don't know if all you guys took journalism, but in 101 your story should be about the who, what, when, where, how and why – and we rarely get the "why." You can make a documentary about how horrible the gun problem is, but I don't care about that. I already know that. Why would I go to a movie that says "guns are bad?" I try to tell reporters these days, don't portray this movie as one about gun violence in America. I would never ask a date out on a Friday night, "Hey, you want to see that gun control movie?" That's not what this movie is. You're going on this little journey with me into the dark side of the American soul. All the things you wish for in a good movie – you're going to laugh, you're going to cry, you're going to think.

Bowling for Columbine opens Friday, October 11th in Los Angeles and New York and then expands in release subsequently. I highly recommend everybody see this movie.