American Logic

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This is possibly one of the best things I've read in a while. A lengthy read, but eye-opening nevertheless :)
American Logic

Q: Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?

A: Because they had weapons of mass destruction.

Q: But the inspectors didn't find any weapons of mass destruction.

A: That's because the Iraqis were hiding them.

Q: And that's why we invaded Iraq?

A: Yep. Invasions always work better than inspections.

Q: But after we invaded them, we STILL didn't find any weapons of mass destruction, did we?

A: That's because the weapons are so well hidden. Don't worry, we'll find something, probably right before the 2004 election.

Q: Why did Iraq want all those weapons of mass destruction?

A: To use them in a war, silly.

Q: I'm confused. If they had all those weapons that they planned to use in a war, then why didn't they use any of those weapons when we went to war with them?

A: Well, obviously they didn't want anyone to know they had those weapons, so they chose to die by the thousands rather than defend themselves.

Q: That doesn't make sense. Why would they choose to die if they had all those big weapons with which they could have fought back?

A: It's a different culture. It's not supposed to make sense.

Q: I don't know about you, but I don't think they had any of those weapons our government said they did.

A: Well, you know, it doesn't matter whether or not they had those weapons. We had another good reason to invade them anyway.

Q: And what was that?

A: Even if Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Saddam Hussein was a cruel dictator, which is another good reason to invade another country.

Q: Why? What does a cruel dictator do that makes it OK to invade his country?

A: Well, for one thing, he tortured his own people.

Q: Kind of like what they do in China?

A: Don't go comparing China to Iraq. China is a good economic competitor, where millions of people work for slave wages in sweatshops to make U.S. corporations richer.

Q: So if a country lets its people be exploited for American corporate gain, it's a good country, even if that country tortures people?

A: Right.

Q: Why were people in Iraq being tortured?

A: For political crimes, mostly, like criticizing the government. People who criticized the government in Iraq were sent to prison and tortured.

Q: Isn't that exactly what happens in China?

A: I told you, China is different.

Q: What's the difference between China and Iraq?

A: Well, for one thing, Iraq was ruled by the Ba'ath party, while China is Communist.

Q: Didn't you once tell me Communists were bad?

A: No, just Cuban Communists are bad.

Q: How are the Cuban Communists bad?

A: Well, for one thing, people who criticize the government in Cuba are sent to prison and tortured.

Q: Like in Iraq?

A: Exactly.

Q: And like in China, too?

A: I told you, China's a good economic competitor. Cuba, on the other hand, is not.

Q: How come Cuba isn't a good economic competitor?

A: Well, you see, back in the early 1960s, our government passed some laws that made it illegal for Americans to trade or do any business with Cuba until they stopped being Communists and started being capitalists like us.

Q: But if we got rid of those laws, opened up trade with Cuba, and started doing business with them, wouldn't that help the Cubans become capitalists?

A: Don't be a smart-ass.

Q: I didn't think I was being one.

A: Well, anyway, they also don't have freedom of religion in Cuba.

Q: Kind of like China and the Falun Gong movement?

A: I told you, stop saying bad things about China. Anyway, Saddam Hussein came to power through a military coup, so he's not really a legitimate leader anyway.

Q: What's a military coup?

A: That's when a military general takes over the government of a country by force, instead of holding free elections like we do in the United States.

Q: Didn't the ruler of Pakistan come to power by a military coup?

A: You mean General Pervez Musharraf? Uh, yeah, he did, but Pakistan is our friend.

Q: Why is Pakistan our friend if their leader is illegitimate?

A: I never said Pervez Musharraf was illegitimate.

Q: Didn't you just say a military general who comes to power by forcibly overthrowing the legitimate government of a nation is an illegitimate leader?

A: Only Saddam Hussein. Pervez Musharraf is our friend, because he helped us invade Afghanistan.

Q: Why did we invade Afghanistan?

A: Because of what they did to us on September 11th.

Q: What did Afghanistan do to us on September 11th?

A: Well, on September 11th, nineteen men - fifteen of them Saudi Arabians - hijacked four airplanes and flew three of them into buildings, killing over 3,000 Americans.

Q: So how did Afghanistan figure into all that?

A: Afghanistan was where those bad men trained, under the oppressive rule of the Taliban.

Q: Aren't the Taliban those bad radical Islamics who chopped off people's heads and hands?

A: Yes, that's exactly who they were. Not only did they chop off people's heads and hands, but they oppressed women, too.

Q: Didn't the Bush administration give the Taliban 43 million dollars back in May of 2001?

A: Yes, but that money was a reward because they did such a good job fighting drugs.

Q: Fighting drugs?

A: Yes, the Taliban were very helpful in stopping people from growing opium poppies.

Q: How did they do such a good job?

A: Simple. If people were caught growing opium poppies, the Taliban would have their hands and heads cut off.

Q: So, when the Taliban cut off people's heads and hands for growing flowers, that was OK, but not if they cut people's heads and hands off for other reasons?

A: Yes. It's OK with us if radical Islamic fundamentalists cut off people's hands for growing flowers, but it's cruel if they cut off people's hands for stealing bread.

Q: Don't they also cut off people's hands and heads in Saudi Arabia?

A: That's different. Afghanistan was ruled by a tyrannical patriarchy that oppressed women and forced them to wear burqas whenever they were in public, with death by stoning as the penalty for women who did not comply.

Q: Don't Saudi women have to wear burqas in public, too?

A: No, Saudi women merely wear a traditional Islamic body covering.

Q: What's the difference?

A: The traditional Islamic covering worn by Saudi women is a modest yet fashionable garment that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers. The burqa, on the other hand, is an evil tool of patriarchal oppression that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers.

Q: It sounds like the same thing with a different name.

A: Now, don't go comparing Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are our friends.

Q: But I thought you said 15 of the 19 hijackers on September 11th were from Saudi Arabia.

A: Yes, but they trained in Afghanistan.

Q: Who trained them?

A: A very bad man named Osama bin Laden.

Q: Was he from Afghanistan?

A: Uh, no, he was from Saudi Arabia too. But he was a bad man, a very bad man.

Q: I seem to recall he was our friend once.

A: Only when we helped him and the mujahadeen repel the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan back in the 1980s.

Q: Who are the Soviets? Was that the Evil Communist Empire Ronald Reagan talked about?

A: There are no more Soviets. The Soviet Union broke up in 1990 or thereabouts, and now they have elections and capitalism like us. We call them Russians now.

Q: So the Soviets - I mean, the Russians - are now our friends?

A: Well, not really. You see, they were our friends for many years after they stopped being Soviets, but then they decided not to support our invasion of Iraq, so we're mad at them now. We're also mad at the French and the Germans because they didn't help us invade Iraq either.

Q: So the French and Germans are evil, too?

A: Not exactly evil, but just bad enough that we had to rename French fries and French toast to Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast.

Q: Do we always rename foods whenever another country doesn't do what we want them to do?

A: No, we just do that to our friends. Our enemies, we invade.

Q: But wasn't Iraq one of our friends back in the 1980s?

A: Well, yeah. For a while.

Q: Was Saddam Hussein ruler of Iraq back then?

A: Yes, but at the time he was fighting against Iran, which made him our friend, temporarily.

Q: Why did that make him our friend?

A: Because at that time, Iran was our enemy.

Q: Isn't that when he gassed the Kurds?

A: Yeah, but since he was fighting against Iran at the time, we looked the other way, to show him we were his friend.

Q: So anyone who fights against one of our enemies automatically becomes our friend?

A: Most of the time, yes.

Q: And anyone who fights against one of our friends is automatically an enemy?

A: Sometimes that's true, too. However, if American corporations can profit by selling weapons to both sides at the same time, all the better.

Q: Why?

A: Because war is good for the economy, which means war is good for America, which means anyone who opposes war is a godless Communist. Now close your eyes and go to sleep. Good night.

Q: Good night.
TC wrote:as soon as baseball stops being homosexual, i will.

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Kanuck wrote:This is possibly one of the best things I've read in a while.
I'd have to agree with you. I've been so sick of all the "pro-America, pro-Christianity" shit that shows up in my e-mail.

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Unfortunately, it would seem not everyone is willing to read this... I posted it in a private area elsewhere, and after a couple of people replied with a chuckle, the board Nazis immediately frowned upon it and locked it :roll:

Ah well. Guess I know where to go for real discussion from now on - some people just don't have a sense of humour ;)
TC wrote:as soon as baseball stops being homosexual, i will.

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Kanuck wrote:Unfortunately, it would seem not everyone is willing to read this... I posted it in a private area elsewhere, and after a couple of people replied with a chuckle, the board Nazis immediately frowned upon it and locked it :roll:

Ah well. Guess I know where to go for real discussion from now on - some people just don't have a sense of humour ;)
I kind of got the feeling you didn't like Americans to your reply to my post on phpBB.

I don't know if we did the right thing by invading Iraq, but I have family in the military and would like to think all the people who died were not fighting for nothing.

I really think Bush did what he thought was needed to do weather it was the right thing to do or not.
Storm13 wrote:I'd have to agree with you. I've been so sick of all the "pro-America, pro-Christianity" shit that shows up in my e-mail.
this is the first time I have heard Christianity having anything to do with the war as it is not a religious war.
What Is Real!? Coming 2005

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graphic wrote:this is the first time I have heard Christianity having anything to do with the war as it is not a religious war.
guess that depends upon which side you're on, doesn't it?

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TC wrote:
graphic wrote:this is the first time I have heard Christianity having anything to do with the war as it is not a religious war.
guess that depends upon which side you're on, doesn't it?
I wouldn't think so.
Which side would I have to be on?

I know Sadaam tried to convince people this is a war against Muslims (which worked well), but that is only to get the support of all the Muslims around the world. This is clearly not a war against Muslims or any religious group.

I have certainly never heard anything about Christians having anything to do with the war. Neither have the marines who had fought (still fighting) over there. I am actually seeing one of my cousins for the first time tomarrow since he has been over there.

Sorry if I sound a bit touchy :)
This topic happens to hit close to home.
What Is Real!? Coming 2005

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graphic wrote:
TC wrote:guess that depends upon which side you're on, doesn't it?
I wouldn't think so.
Which side would I have to be on?

I know Sadaam tried to convince people this is a war against Muslims (which worked well), but that is only to get the support of all the Muslims around the world. This is clearly not a war against Muslims or any religious group.

I have certainly never heard anything about Christians having anything to do with the war. Neither have the marines who had fought (still fighting) over there. I am actually seeing one of my cousins for the first time tomarrow since he has been over there.

Sorry if I sound a bit touchy :)
This topic happens to hit close to home.
Since this is a touchy subject for so many, I don't really want to get into an argument over it. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for all our service men and women who are caught up in this thing. My problem is with our country's "leadership" and the way they let their "business contacts" and "conservative christian values" dictate what the rest of the country should feel.

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Yeah, it might be a touchy subject, but I think we're all (semi-)adults here :)
I think this small quote summed it up for me:
The traditional Islamic covering worn by Saudi women is a modest yet fashionable garment that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers. The burqa, on the other hand, is an evil tool of patriarchal oppression that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers.
That seems to be the American government's way of looking at just about anything. They'll put a different spin on the exact same thing, depending on the circumstances, and in my eyes that's where they lose their credibility.
Q: Didn't you once tell me Communists were bad?
A: No, just Cuban Communists are bad.
This just made me laugh :)
TC wrote:as soon as baseball stops being homosexual, i will.

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If you do a little homework on Georgie, you'll find that he was basically a druggie playboy for a decade and a half...he bottomed out, discovered the most hard-line version of Jesus there is, i.e. Fundamentalist Christianity, and was miraculously re-born. He took the coke straw out of his nose, put the bottle down, and got into the family business. He is definitely in bed with the most conservative, far-right, Christian wing of the Republican party, and continues to allow this association to influence his policy both domestic and foreign...

HOWEVER, this isn't really a religious war. It's about oil and geopolitical influence...Saudi Arabia is where all the terrorists are, which we damn well know but can't do anything about because it's also where all our oil is, so watch for our relationship with them to break down in an extremely messy fashion in the next decade or so, and realize full well that our current invasion simply serves as replacing our broken down fuel line in S.A. with a new one in Iraq.

There's also a handful of dirt-poor African nations with no great military might that are harboring all sorts of Muslim extremist regimes and terrorists (Chad is a good example, go do some homework on them...scary!), but they don't have any oil so we don't talk about them much.

Graphic, no offense meant to your family members in the service--they are working a harder job than I hope to ever have, more power to 'em and I hope they're safe and healthy--but their bosses are not being honest about why they're currently doing this job. Therein lies the problem.

I'd recommend anyone here pick up a book called "Blowback," it is NOT an attack on the Bush administration (it was written in 2000); rather, it is a scary look at the last 50 years of U.S. foreign policy and how our actions like Desert Storm and many other 'friendly occupations' will come back to haunt us. The introductory chapter firmly predicts Setpember 11 and names Osama a full year before it happened.
"I'm like a dog chasing cars, I wouldn't know what to do if I caught one. . . . I'm not a schemer. I just do things."

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"Can't we all just be friends?" :metal:
"Man, if my fuckin' ex-wife asked me to take care of her fuckin' dog while she and her boyfriend went to Honolulu I'd tell her to go fuck herself."

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Dummy wrote:
/me notices your location, and isn't surprised
I could say the same don't ya think?
Yes, I'm located outside of the Southern US, therefore I'm willing to question Dubya's motives - you have a point, indeed :)
TC wrote:as soon as baseball stops being homosexual, i will.