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Storm13 wrote:
TC wrote:more matrix reactionism:

Bush equated with Hitler in 'Matrix' sequel?
Which in turn wrote:"I saw it. The TV monitors show Nazis, Hitler, and an atomic explosion, and somewhere in the midst of all that the face of George W. Bush can be seen for a second or so. Why would such a peace-loving president so emotionally engaged with the struggle of the common man ever be included alongside such dark images? What could the filmmakers have been thinking? Is it too late to start a boycott of this film? ... Maybe if enough pressure can be exerted, they can have the offensive image removed before they press the DVD!"
This would be hilarious if it weren't meant to be serious.
what, you didn't hear? all the guns in the DVD will be digitally replaced with ice cream cones.

42
O-dot wrote:I suppose I can see why others were left disappointed by it. But they are watching it through their own prism of what they find entertaining. From my perspective, I don't have a problem with it.
Then we agree to disagree - I can live with that :)
O-dot wrote:So they did the scene wrong, but you appreciate it? I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not.
Good concept. Good content. Poor execution. I appreciate what was attempted, I just didn't like the end result. Though a second viewing would probably be a good idea :)
O-dot wrote:If you had to look up someone else's explanation of the scene to appreciate it, that doesn't speak well for the film, which should stand on its own. It's like David Lynch films (not that the Wachowskis are on the same level as Lynch, I might add): They occasionally are abstract and at times hard to follow, yet I still love them, even if I don't grasp everything Lynch is trying to say. And yes, there are people who've gone to the trouble of trying to decipher every single little element of his movies. I've read some of these interpretations, and they're fascinating and all, but do they help in my own appreciation of his movies? Maybe, but it's all kind of irrelevant because they're someone else's interpretation. Not mine. Mine is what counts as far as my appreciation of the movie goes.
But what I read wasn't somebody else's interpretation, so much as a rehash of what was said. My chief complaint was that it was so fast-paced, monotonous, and difficult to hear, that there's no way I could have begun to grasp the meaning.

Then again, this might be attributable to the fact it was 12:30 AM, and the theatre's sound system is kinda crappy - and we were in those dreaded front seats, perhaps twenty feet from the screen. Like I said, maybe a second viewing will change my mind, but I didn't get nearly enough of this scene to like it. I understand I wasn't supposed to understand every word, but I don't need to restate my opinions for a fiftieth time on why I still didn't like it :)
O-dot wrote:In the case of Reloaded, the movie didn't entertain you. Yet you've come across an interpretation that seems to satisfy some of your questions. But is that going to really matter the next time you watch the film, if ever? It still didn't entertain you.
We'll have to see about that next time I see it :)
O-dot wrote:Movie-theater talkers ought to be attacked :mrgreen:
Seriously, Kanuck, I wasn't attacking you. It's just a spirited discussion.
Yep, no worries. It was more of a shot at Dubya. Speaking of whom, I totally noticed his face when "death and destruction" were mentioned, and I giggled in my seat. I'm pretty sure it was video from his "axis of evil" speech - it wasn't straight-on, but from below and to the side, thereby ruling out a state of the union address or anything else straight from the White House/Pentagon/other government building, where the cameras are always straight-on.

But I love that one guy you mentioned, TC... "Why would such a peace-loving president so emotionally engaged with the struggle of the common man ever be included alongside such dark images?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :mrgreen:
TC wrote:as soon as baseball stops being homosexual, i will.

43
TC wrote:here are some comments/thoughts/analysis from the Blues board that i felt i should post here:
Nayrb wrote:Alright, I saw it again...

So, Zion was not destroyed. I thought they were at the end, and Bane (yes, the guy's name is BANE) was the only survivor of Zion. He, obviously, is Agent Smith. Zany!

Enter the Matrix opens up the story a great bit, so I suggest anyone who can picks it up and plays it... it helps understand a couple of other things.

***ENTER THE MATRIX SPOILER BELOW****
















The Oracle says something to Naobi at one point like "Neo is stuck between both our world and yours"... I'm assuming that's why he is in a coma.

Smith is no longer "part of the system" so we don't really know the extent of his powers. When he changes to the other guy, perhaps it's just his mindset going to him and that's why Bane is EVIL in the real world. Who knows?

Good flick.
LazyPenguin wrote:My Theory:

-Ok, Bane(or the only survivor from Zion) IS Agent Smith. Remember when Neo had the dream about that guy about to get on the phone to enter "The Real World" and Agent Smith came through the roof and cloned himself in that guy? Well Agent Smith entered the "Real World" though the phone that way. So the guy lying next to Neo in the end right before it ends is Agent Smith.

-Which begs the questions, how can Agent Smith go into the "Real World" when he is a program? Well, I think it is all a big hoax. I think that Morpheus, Neo, Trinity, all of Zion aren't really out of the Real World. They are all still part of the Matrix. I think that when people start to rebel, the computers pick it up and then they create a new "world" or "program" to make these people think they are out of it. When truly they are not! So I think that EVERYONE is still in the Matrix.

-So if everyone is still in the Matrix, Neo is the only one who is starting to ever get out of it. The Architect(sp?) was lying at the end of the movie about Zion being real people, about destorying it, and about 6 other "ones" before him. Neo right now is STILL in the Matrix but he is becoming the "one" who can get out of it.

-To help clear things up which make this point more belivable..remember at the end of the movie when Neo stops the machines from coming? Well, they were in the supposive "real world" and there Neo does not have his powers like he does in the Matrix. Why would he be able to stop those machines if they were not in the Matrix. That even makes me a stronger believer that they are STILL int he Matrix. All of them. He would not have been able to stop that machine if he wasn't in the matrix.

-In Summary, I think that everyone is still in the Matrix and in the 3rd one they will realize that, and Neo will be the first one to get out. Agent Smith is in Bane's(or the only survivor of the Zion battle) body. I think that would be awesome if all that was true.

Just my Thoughts,
LP
Don't know if I agree fully, however we do know that where ever they are Smith/Bane and Neo are still equal counter parts with the same abilities. So if they are in a revamped "Matrix" I'll dislike these brothers even more. If ya care to see my point rent "The Thirteenth Floor" its been done.

My feeling is they are out of the Matrix but the world within the Matrix is percieved incredibly different then the "outside." Seems to me that the ambassador was telling us as much when he spoke of the symbiotic relationship of the machines and men.

Don't buy into the fact that Morpheus is wrong, he's not.... he just doesn't know it yet. Why else do they have so much of the pointless babble?

Also I think you are all reading to much into the "nipple scene." It doesn't fit anywhere to associate Neo and Trinity with this loving relationship, family anti white stuff...whatever. It is simply put there to explain life back to it primitive roots. They put them in caves I feel to make this a liitle more obvious but seems to muddle the issue. They didn't have luxuries other then what waas needed. The idea for me that works best with the whole story(and lack there of....you guys have a very active imagination :wink: ) was this primitive culture finding a need for hope and life, but things have been changed for man by the hands of the machines. The world and us has been changed hence the reason a program and a man can somehow generate EMP's outside of the Matrix.

Just my simple thoughts there are a ton more to ask about but the final question I need to ask is if all of what has been discussed above is true, why is Neo, who is so dependant on the ones around him, is so fearful not to trust them and let them know the truth...it doesn't fit and I'll say that it is just poor writing, not some underlying plot. I know I'm siding with Kanuck on this but I was not all that dissapointed, mainly because I was never that sold on the first movie being so great. Loved the special effects and action but the story was more simple with a couple of Ali's rope-a-dopes to catch ya off gaurd. I wont drag to much of that up but the Matrix was to me just Arnold in cyber-space looking for John Connors.

Anyway back to the subject, I need answers and have a few to Neo's inner workings to buy into any of this. First he lies to Trinity about what he knows, his dream. I'll give you some slack in that maybe he doesn't tell her to protect her but how best to save her then tell her?!? Secondly he lies again to the oracle about the same thing, she somewhat tells him he knows what happens but chooses not to see. Again very thin ice to me, he tells no one that she has told him HE is an oracle himself and has the vission. Why? We know he still depends on Morphues and his very belief in Neo as the One. Finally after he goes to the architect he decides that the truth should be hidden from his savior Morpheus?!?!? BAHHH I don't think this is a character epiphany or any type of enlightment for anyone he'll no the truth soon enough. It is simply this "popcorn movie" getting us believing one thing so thay can come back in the end and say Morpheus was right all a long only he didn't know it. To me these decisions by Neo just don't add up to the character, and sadly I think what it all can be chalked up to a screen play that could be resolved in more then likely one movie but no more then two. I read somewhere a review that sad " The Matrix was lean and sleak while the sequel was mammoth and cumbersome.." to me that describes it! We'll see.
"Your just jealous the voices are only talking to ME!!"

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*******************************************
Careful, contains Spoilers for the movie eXistenZ
*******************************************


I am reading much about the 13th Floor in here. I haven't seen the movie and I guess this one is pretty much spoiled for me now. :)

But I think another similar concept (and I kinda hope this is not how the trilogy is played out) is the Cronenberg movie "eXistenZ" whose plot can basically be described as a game in a game in a game story.

But I don't think that "the destert of the real"/Zion is another part of the Matrix. The machines just have the humans more under the control than they make them believe. I think it is easier to keep the freedom fighters in the real world where they are not able to find possible exploits in a vulnerable system like the Matrix. They may be able to bend the rules in the virtual world, they won't be in reality.
So with Neo now developing the power to "bend", getting a grasp over the machines (however this is possible) there is now either a new hope for humanity or this is just another part of the plan to keep the "Zionists" happy.
"Good taste is the death of art."
-Truman Capote

45
I posted this on the Iron Gang board at http://www.voivod.com earlier today.

Thought I would throw my 2 cents into the mix.

Saw it over the weekend.

I have to say I really didn't like it. No sir, did not like it at all.

First, there seems to be no continuity between scenes. They just sort of slap it all together. Bad editing. Bad writing.

Second, the action sequences are way to long. And they get way to boring. And they have way too much CGI.

Third, the story sucked. The problem I see with the sequel is this: In the first movie there is that one moment when the film twists your head off and blows your brains out. And for me that moment made the film worthwhile. The problem is that everything after Neo is released from the Matrix is denouement, including the Reloaded and Revolution. Yeah, they throw a curve ball at you in this film. But I have to tell you at least 85% of the people walked out of the theater not getting the plot twist.

Other problems with the story. To many new characters you don't get to know enough about to love or hate. The return of Agent Smith, who seems only to be in this film to be a punching bag.

So I was looking forward to a great movie and I all I got was a rock.

46
ok, update: by cutting from the second before "the boy" appears in Zion to the scene after they have left Zion, i was able to eliminate 25 minutes from the film - TWENTY-FIVE FUCKING MINUTES - and feel like i missed nothing. and if you really want to get picky, cut back in the one minute dream sequence of neo's and re-cut away after he closes the door behind him as he walks out. that's still 24 fucking minutes wasted that completely slows down the movie for reasons that are not nearly enough to pay the price of dragging it on and making me look away.

weak editing choice. without that scene, the whole film feels different and moves along faster, and i wasn't left wondering WTF at the whole 'rave in a cave' scene. IMO, a better film. leave that extended sequence for the extras on disc 2.

try it. it's interesting at the very least.

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something interesting i stumbled across wrote:Matrix films blamed for series of murders by obsessed fans

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Monday May 19, 2003
The Guardian


One of the attractions of The Matrix, the film whose sequel, The Matrix Reloaded, opens in Britain next week, was its blending of fantasy and reality. A series of murders in the United States suggests some people have been unable to distinguish between the two.
Josh Cooke, a 19-year-old in Oakton, Virginia, owned a trenchcoat like the one worn by Neo, the character played by Keanu Reeves in the movie, and kept a poster of his hero on his bedroom wall. Then he bought a gun similar to the one used by Neo to fight evil.

In February, he shot his father and mother in the basement of their home and then called the police. His lawyers say he believed that he was living inside the Matrix.

The theme of the films is that computers have taken over the earth, although some humans exist in a computer-simulated world, battling to save humanity. "He's just obsessed with it," Cooke's defence attorney, Rachel Fierro, told the Washington Post.

The local prosecutor, Robert Horan, said: "I don't think the movie causes violence. Millions and millions of people have seen it and not killed anybody." Cooke will now be examined by a psychiatrist.

The Matrix seems to have spawned other imitators. Last week in Ohio, a woman was found not guilty of killing the professor whose house she rented, on the grounds of insanity. Tonda Lynn Ansley, 37, said she had had dreams which turned out not to be dreams. The local prosecutor said that, "in her warped perception", the film played a part in the killing.

In San Francisco in 2000, Vadim Mieseges, 27, killed his landlady, Ella Wong, and pleaded not guilty on grounds of insanity. The police who interviewed him said he had made "reference to being sucked into the Matrix".

The young man accused of taking part in last year's sniper attacks in the Washington area has also cited the film.

"Free yourself of the Matrix," wrote Lee Boyd Malvo, 18, one of the two defendants, in his jail cell.

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Further Matrix-related news:
Image
Above: Dieber in a rough cut of the Matrix-inspired ad.
BOWLING ALLEY OWNER WANTS TV AD TO LOOK 'MORE MATRIX-Y'

MENASHA, WI—After seeing the rough cut of his new TV commercial, Bob Dieber, 46, owner of Menasha Lanes, told the 30-second spot's creator to make it look "more Matrix-y," sources reported Tuesday.


"Yeah, it definitely has the Matrix thing going like I wanted, but I can't help feeling like it could have more," Dieber said of the ad, slated to air on Appleton/Green Bay UPN affiliate WACY-32 during upcoming Judge Hatchett telecasts. "There needs to be more special effects or something. Like maybe a bowling ball flying through the air in slow motion. That'd be a pretty
funny twist."

The ad, as scripted, features Dieber bowling in a dark trenchcoat similar to the one worn by Laurence Fishburne's Matrix character Morpheus. After bowling a strike, Dieber turns to the camera, strikes a martial-arts pose, and says, "At Menasha Lanes, you are The One."

Though the commercial conveys the low prices, fun family atmosphere, and new bumper bowling one can enjoy at Menasha Lanes, Dieber said it lacks the "dazzling computer-y feel" of The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded.

"Is there any way we can work in those falling green letters or something?" Dieber said. "And I'd love to throw in some of those levitating effects. There could be a shot of me in the snack bar, and I jump into the air and just stay there while the camera spins all around me. That'd grab people's attention."

Dieber's suggestions have caused headaches at Hot Spot Films, the local production house shooting the ad. Especially frustrated by his efforts to up the Matrix ante is director Andy Schuba.

"We pride ourselves on being the commercial-production house in the Fox River Valley area," Schuba said. "We have a state-of-the-art editing suite and a special machine dedicated to titling effects. But the things Bob wants to do would run 10 or 20 times over the budget for this project, if we could even do them at all."

In spite of his limited resources, Schuba has made every effort to satisfy his client, trying to closely replicate the multiple-camera "freeze" shots popularized in the Matrix films. With only one handheld Hi-8 video camera, Schuba attempted to slow down the ball as it approached the pins, then "pan around the other side of the ball quickly." The effort ended in frustration.

"[Cameraman] Derek [Gund] was supposed to run around the ball as it was rolling down the lane, but his shots were all too bumpy to use," Schuba said. "On the third or fourth take, he twisted his ankle in one of the gutters and had to take the rest of the week off. Normally, I wouldn't even try something like that, but Menasha Lanes is one of our biggest accounts, and we really want to keep them happy. It's been tough, though."

Schuba said that Dieber, though well-intentioned, does not understand the technical complexities of his ideas.

"He's really hands-on with his ads, but in the end, he doesn't really know what he's getting into," Schuba said. "He wants full CGI effects, multiple-camera stuff, stop-action filming. You just can't do that stuff on a $900 budget."

Spoofing hit movies is nothing new for Dieber: The Matrix spot is Menasha Lanes' fourth movie-inspired ad in the last decade. The first was a 1993 Terminator 2-inspired ad in which Dieber donned a leather jacket and said, "Bowl here once... and you'll be back."

"People really got a kick out of that one," Dieber said. "I can't tell you how many people would see me in the street or standing in line at the post office and shout, 'Hey, Terminator!' Years later, I still get that every now and again."

In the summer of 1995, the Terminator ad was followed by a Wayne's World ad, in which Dieber, wearing a long black wig and brandishing a guitar, invited viewers to "Party on at Menasha Lanes!"

"That was a good one, too," Dieber recalled. "The kids loved it."

In 1999, looking to tap into the Austin Powers craze, Dieber donned a purple paisley sports coat and shouted, "Menasha Lanes is shag-alicious, baby!" The ad, which has run for the past four years on local Milwaukee Bucks telecasts, will be retired in September when the Matrix spot is set to debut.

Schuba, who collaborated with Dieber on those previous ads, said he always feels pressure to top the last commercial.

"The viewers have come to expect a lot from us, and we don't want to let them down," Schuba said. "We've got to continually raise the bar. I want to deliver a 30-second Matrix-looking bowling-alley ad more than anyone. But what Bob wants is a tall order, even for a production company like Hot Spot."


http://www.theonion.com/onion3925/bowli ... owner.html

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TC I'll take you on that wager, cold beer for the victor? :cheers:

You know physics better then me! I'm ambashed! :oops: How do you aim an EMP? Let alone operate as a machine?(First matrix Neo isn't affected when they set it off) Something still is amiss though!
"Your just jealous the voices are only talking to ME!!"

[DVD] Matrix: Reloaded details

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DigitalBits wrote:Warner Home Video is today officially announcing the release of The Matrix: Reloaded on October 14th (SRP $29.95). The 2-disc set will be available in both anamorphic widescreen and full frame versions. Interestingly, early press information indicates that the disc will be available in an Amaray keep case rather than the typical Snapper packaging Warner is so fond of. Audio on the DVD will be available in English and French Dolby Digital 5.1 and English 2.0 Dolby Surround. Extras will include numerous documentary featurettes, including Preload (behind-the-scenes with the cast and crew), The Freeway Chase (a look at the making of the complex stunt sequence), Enter the Matrix (behind-the-scenes on the new videogame), What is the Amimatrix? (a promo for the animated companion DVD), The Matrix Unfolds (a look at the film "phenomenon") and Get Me an Exit (a look at design advertising inspired by the film), as well as DVD-ROM weblinks to the official site and the MTV Movie Awards spoof video. There may also be additional features TBA. Here's the final cover art for the disc:
Image

Re: [DVD] Matrix: Reloaded details

53
TC wrote:
DigitalBits wrote:Warner Home Video is today officially announcing the release of The Matrix: Reloaded on October 14th (SRP $29.95). The 2-disc set will be available in both anamorphic widescreen and full frame versions. Interestingly, early press information indicates that the disc will be available in an Amaray keep case rather than the typical Snapper packaging Warner is so fond of. Audio on the DVD will be available in English and French Dolby Digital 5.1 and English 2.0 Dolby Surround. Extras will include numerous documentary featurettes, including Preload (behind-the-scenes with the cast and crew), The Freeway Chase (a look at the making of the complex stunt sequence), Enter the Matrix (behind-the-scenes on the new videogame), What is the Amimatrix? (a promo for the animated companion DVD), The Matrix Unfolds (a look at the film "phenomenon") and Get Me an Exit (a look at design advertising inspired by the film), as well as DVD-ROM weblinks to the official site and the MTV Movie Awards spoof video. There may also be additional features TBA. Here's the final cover art for the disc:
Image
Wouldn't it make more sense to wait until Revolutions is released, then issue both in a two-disc set? Because you know they'll do that -- or better yet, a trilogy pack at some point.
This is a snakeskin jacket. And for me it's a symbol of my individuality and my belief in personal freedom.

56
The first one was just bad. The second one was unwatchable. I suspect the third will be more of the same. I still haven't decided which was worse, Reloaded or Gigli. Both were painful to sit through with equally inept writing. Both of them made me want to go back in time and kill George Eastman and Thomas Edison before they could make their respective inventions in film to ensure the medium never existed, if only to prevent my having had to sit though those two films.

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darkness wrote:The first one was just bad. The second one was unwatchable. I suspect the third will be more of the same. I still haven't decided which was worse, Reloaded or Gigli. Both were painful to sit through with equally inept writing. Both of them made me want to go back in time and kill George Eastman and Thomas Edison before they could make their respective inventions in film to ensure the medium never existed, if only to prevent my having had to sit though those two films.
8O What kind of moives do you like?
What Is Real!? Coming 2005

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darkness wrote:
graphic wrote: 8O What kind of moives do you like?
Pretty much the basics. Lynch, Kubrick, Hitckcock, Bergman, etc...
And Fincher :mrgreen:
This is a snakeskin jacket. And for me it's a symbol of my individuality and my belief in personal freedom.